| #1 Odin (cf2.tor.accglobal.net)[6409] |
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hehe zerg on islands are a tricky deal
zerg vs zerg mutaling is actually a pretty good thing
because cracklings > hydras pretty well and so are mutas if you get a big nuff flock of em plus
mutas have the mobility deal =) so in the peon line out of peon line dont matter if a spore or 2 is there if you screw thier economy it was worth the loss of 1-2 mutas wasnt it? =) |
| #2 2Inadequate (49.chicago-06-07rs.il.dial-access.att.net)[6419] |
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| Odin, get off crack =) Please. It would help soooo much =) Nice report sausage. I think mutas are better b/c if u surround the dude's island w/ mutas/scourge then he's screwed b/c he cant drop, as you can bring over more mutas to help your original 1 who found the drop and halt all drops this way. There's also the hit-and-run factor. |
| #3 .Praetor (cache1.cwo.com)[6420] |
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| I remember reading a report way back when, when the site just got started. It ended with something like "In Zerg vs. Zerg battles, its all about zerglings and mutalisks. And don't let anyone tell you differently." For me, this has proven true time and time again. On islands, too. (The muta rush is still alive and well against Protoss too.) Nothing works as well. Sometime I try something different, like mass hydras and sneak a nydus canal in his base. Nope, his mutas and lings owned me =( On islands, you can go almost all mutas, and expand vs. Zerg. Lings are always good for defense though. |
| #4 ralessi (tole-cache.dial.bright.net)[6426] |
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| you lost to znzf hahahahahaha |
| #5 ralessi (tole-cache.dial.bright.net)[6428] |
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j/k he is actually getting better :-/
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| #6 Necrosausage! (N044P023.dipool.highway.telekom.at)[6441] |
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Does he really play BGH or did he wanted to humilitate me after his win? :-(
And I will play Protoss exclusively for the next two months, till I get dumb again and try Zerg or Terran :) |
| #7 Orange-Fungus (sktnsk01d051701150.sk.sympatico.ca)[6450] |
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| Ummm Necro? what rating did u get for this report? it looks weird =P |
| #8 Serephina (iis.interconti.com.ar)[6453] |
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Necro, dude, this is BW, right?
THEN WHY DIDN'T YOU USE LURKERS?!?
Jesus, after you drop got owned by cracklings, you'd have learned, right? <B>Wrong</B> ;)
okay, mutas are awesome interdictors, adn they lead upto a nice Dev/muta combo, but going hydras is the right was to go, IMO. Double hatch. Get an early expand, then proceed to out-power him in the muta wars that ensue. Just be sure to kep ~4 lurkers per base if he's going for cracklings.
GL next time, tho |
| #9 Serephina (iis.interconti.com.ar)[6454] |
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| Oops, I meant double Lair, my bad. |
| #10 YourRoleModel (relay.atinc.com)[6456] |
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I actually lost a Zerg v Zerg game to a guy who made hydras. For whatever reason, even though I focused fire, his focused fire was more effective, and his unit control/placement of hydras was great.
I was on him with mutalings, and neither of us could expand, but what he did was use lurkers with his hydras, concentrating only on upgrading the hydras, instead of ground and air, like me. Lings died to lurkers, hydras focused fire on my Mutas and eventually drove me across the map back to my main, where he waited for a single defiler to cover his hydras from my sunkens, and the lurkers took care of my lings...
How humiliating... but I have to say that my Zerg vs Zerg game is what I consider strongest. I use ensnare, eventually plague, and macro mutas pretty well. Vs other Mutalings, Devourers + a Queen makes your mutas win every time. Anyway, it is possible to win with hydras+lurkers, but you'd better have great unit control. |
| #11 Amedda (host-216-77-202-31.btr.bellsouth.net)[6457] |
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Eventually, there is a breaking point where Hydras will stop any amount of cracklings. This is around 30-40 Hydras. Lings will die before they can even hit the Hydras. But in cases with smaller numbers of Hydras and lings, Lurkers will help immensely as 2 hits from their spines will kill a line of lings. Upgrades are also important. You must either stay ahead of keep up with your opponent.
Mutas can easily be taken down with Ensnare and some Hydras (plague later on). If your oppoenent goes guardians, you need either dark swarm or air units of your own.
What I do is basically get some Hydras up, then make a spire, for two reasons. If your opponent goes air, you need escorts to stop them from killing your overlords. And if he goes ground, you need to scout with about 3-4 Mutas constantly all over the map for expansions. The easiest way to win 1v1s is better recon and simply dropping overlords full of Hydras on any expansion. In your case, I would have had about 3-4 Lurkers since he was going lings. At home base, back them up with fewer numbers of lings, maybe a sunken and spores (to fend mutas and stop overlords from detecting your lurkers). At his base, your Hydras would provide ample defense and distraction for your lurkers.
I was taught never to go land on island, but its really what your opponents are up to and basically who is the better player. Sometimes the weaker player gets lucky. |
| #12 Necrosausage! (N087P024.dipool.highway.telekom.at)[6459] |
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Err... I thought about Lurkers but then I decided I would better spend the gas on queens (which I never built), a Hive and the crackling upgrades, and for Hydra and Ling upgrades
Do Lurkers really work against Cracklings?
I mean: Do Lurkers really work against MASS Cracklings?
I really dunno, remember that normally I play Toss exclusively :) |
| #13 YourRoleModel (relay.atinc.com)[6462] |
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Lurkers are really most effective when the drops don't happen right over them, and the lings run in without detection, like if you lurkers are protected by a spore colony or group of hydras. In the game I lost, the lurker was always under a group of hydras, so that it couldn't be reached, and the hydras held position, moved with the lurker, held... etc...
One or two lurkers are really helpful. If a group of cracklings drops right ontop of a lurker or two, they'll die, but kill a slew of lings. |
| #14 shockwave (exchange1.sensable.com)[6473] |
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Since you were going all hydras and had no anti-air, I'm surprised he didn't just go guardians and lings. That gets *really* confusing...unload the lings, attack with the guardians. The hydras get hit by the guardians and charge them, the lings close the distance safely without being touched.
As soon as I chased your overlords and forced them to unload, I would have immediately made a bunch of scourge, parasited one of your overlords (if that was available), and waited until you loaded up ;-).
Yep, lurkers do wipe out lings very handedly. This happens only in reasonable numbers of lurkers, otherwise cracklings can take down lurkers very cost-effectively. But once you get a few lurkers, they toast zergling, sorta like marines shred zergling after you reach critical mass.
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| #15 Necrosausage! (N034P023.dipool.highway.telekom.at)[6479] |
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Well, acutally he had no reason to use Guards since Mutas were enough for my sucky Zerg island play :(
I guess he also lacked gas tho, since he had 2 EvoChambers and fairly early adrenal glands, if you keep in mind he also built at least 15 Mutas in this game |
| #16 pkt:7Thorn.pud (rocky.mayo.edu)[6582] |
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Don't listen to Amedda - there is no time when pure hydralisk becomes cost effective against cracklings, without a very small choke. Lurkers are good, but a pretty worthless tech branch if you ask me - just devote your resources to mutas and teching, as the zerg have no realistic way to compete with their own air force without using it - especially not on islands.
The only time lurkers are good is when people go 4 or 5 hatch no gas lings (on land, duh), because lurkers kill lots of zerglings very quickly, whereas having 3 to 4 mutas hovering around doesn't do much if you have 36 zerglings in your base. Otherwise, just stick to muta/ling, or go 4-5 hatch no gas yourself.
IMHO - 4-5 hatch no gas on temple/rivalry.
Mutalisks on island.
Mutaling on ashrigo/fading realms.
(Differences on land maps are all about walking time, as if you can wait a minute before building your own lings you can go one or two fewer hatches and still be able to defend yourself.)
Or you can just play 100% proving grounds and 4 pool everyone.
Peace |
| #17 pkt:7Thorn.pud (rocky.mayo.edu)[6583] |
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| Also, scourge own in muta vs muta - use em. But don't waste them on overlords, and only use 1/muta, then focus fire on it. |
| #18 Necrosausage! (N165P009.dipool.highway.telekom.at)[6589] |
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re: thorn.pud (are u named after a WarCraft scenario? .pud? :)
4-5 Hatch NO GAS?
Cmon, you cant even upgrade speed w/o gas, and choke defense will kill you and then your opponent outtechs you
I dunno if Im wrong tho, Im a Zerg newbie, but no gas sounds very strange to me :-/
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| #19 pkt:7Thorn.pud (rocky.mayo.edu)[6603] |
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It is very strange, but unlike the protoss or the terran, zerg counters to their level 1 tech unit are VERY high up the tech tree. Unlike the marine, defensive structures are not cost effective against them. Unlike the zealot, battles between them are over very quickly - a cannon and two zealots on a ramp can hold off 4 zealots, but a sunken and 8 lings on a ramp won't hold off 20 lings.
It's a very gay strategy, but it works. You need to attack right about when they finish their spire, because that is the point at which they are the weakest. I have yet to lose with this strat in zerg vs zerg on temple, though I know a 4 pool would own me. I haven't been playing all newbies either - I beat [s]Thor with it. Zerg vs zerg is lame though, and really not much fun at all. |
| #20 pkt:7Thorn.pud (rocky.mayo.edu)[6604] |
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| The way my clan naming system works is that everyone picks a file extension for their name. I chose pud because it's fun to say, and related to starcraft in some small way. |
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