| #1 LuckyNewbie:[108997] |
| dialup-209.245.1.143.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net |
| First! silly briton |
| #2 Ling-erie[108998] |
| host213-122-253-48.dial.btopenworld.com |
| if it's too wide... BUY A BIGGER MONITER BWAHAHAHA |
| #3 Ling-erie[108999] |
| host213-122-253-48.dial.btopenworld.com |
| /ban lucky =] |
| #4 Rabid_Raccoon[109001] |
| A010-0017.BTVL.splitrock.net |
| 2nd non-author! |
| #5 Triped[109002] |
| 63.85.132.17 |
| Good report...it's about time there's something worth reading around here...TvP is the most interesting matchup imo. |
| #6 |]agomar[109003] |
| Ottawa-ppp3517188.sympatico.ca |
| Looks awesome at first glance . . . I'd suggest switching the tank with the turret in your main base, but what do I know . . . got to finish my br and then I read :D. |
| #7 Rabid_Raccoon[109005] |
| A010-0017.BTVL.splitrock.net |
since i have the attention span of a rodent, i didn't read the whole thing. but i did enjoy what i read. only a few spelling errors. overall, a good read.
8-9 |
#8  [109010] |
| user50.net128.va.sprint-hsd.net |
definitly my favorite of all your reports. the colors were very pleasing to my eyes - even at the end i wasnt rubbing them. a few spelling/grammar errors, but few enough to be negligable. Pictures werent special, but you had the right amount and they were pretty professional, so thats cool. the game was great as well.
my biggest complaint is a combination of the lack of minimaps and how complex the game gets at the end. i was really lost at a few points, but it was rare enough. next time, pack in the minimaps
9 |
| #9 Serious[109017] |
| h24-86-132-53.ed.shawcable.net |
Pretty report :) Liked it a lot.
9 too n.n |
| #10 Anti-Progress[109021] |
| wdsr53-p1-158.daktel.net |
| Good report, but lots of grammer problems. Then again considering the grade of reports we've been getting around here lately this report gets a 10! a 10! GIVE THE MAN A 10! |
| #11 Ling-erie[109024] |
| host213-122-223-5.dial.btopenworld.com |
| thx Dr.A and daggy and others, i aim to please =} |
| #12 |]agomar[109032] |
| St-Catherines-ppp126365.sympatico.ca |
"a suicided marine tells TAILS of super-fast zealots" :D
I found that kinda funny ;). I really liked this! I agree with Dr A . . . great color scheme . . . this was also my fav of your brs so far . . . although . . . you mention marines can dodge storm and vults cant . . . dont vults have more HP than marines . . . plus are faster . . . so they should dodge better :O.
In any case, loved it. This gets an easy 9 from me. BTW, minimaps would have been nice . . . like Dr A I was lost about 3/4 of the way through the br :). Then it got better.
|
| #13 [109054] |
| 12-248-243-247.client.attbi.com |
same as dr awesome.
btw, why the fuck didnt this guy make some DT / archons... |
| #14 [109055] |
| 12-248-243-247.client.attbi.com |
| oh, and center > centre :D |
| #15 sMs.NT[109060] |
| dialups-722.palmer.mtaonline.net |
| gw, i always love to see the deep 6 owning.. but i didnt see you didnt use any ghosts.. (?) i havent "read" the report just flipped past the pics :) anywho gw gj |
| #16 ZerG~LinG[109082] |
| p405-029.ppp.get2net.dk |
Damn this owns
9
deep6 is sexy! |
| #17 Fearless guy[109104] |
| inet-netcache1-o.oracle.com |
| is that u rabid racoon ? |
| #18 Rabid_Raccoon[109114] |
| A010-0065.BTVL.splitrock.net |
| Is what me? |
| #19 |]agomar[109120] |
| Ottawa-ppp3517204.sympatico.ca |
| I dont think it's him. |
| #20 BigD[109142] |
| px2so.cg.shawcable.net |
Nice. Good to see a good report for a change (I guess the report center is back up).
|
| #21 Ling-erie[109153] |
| proxy5.leeds.ac.uk |
ok,
Daggy: MINES cannont dodge storm, MINES boy =]
yes i can show u reps of ppl storming mines that were packed too tightly.
Everyone: yes i shoulda done more mini-maps, i thought that myself but got lazy =/
#15: DTs suck vs highly upgraded infantry, archons suck vs tanks. Basically he just needed zeal/temp and a LOT of micro in the storm department to win vs this type of unit mix.
#16: Centre > center. I'm English, the 1st american to use our language must have been illiterate and spelt 'centre' incorrectly =]
#17: I never made any ghosts or got the ups cos i scouted no carrier/reaver tech and the add-on was more to scare him with nukes (if he had observers to see the add-on) than anything else =/
It's more of an emergency method having lockdown, cos if u watch the deep6vsCarriers replays u'll see that they aren't really needed.
|
| #22 Kodiak8[109155] |
| proxy2-mel.alphalink.com.au |
Hey very nice...
any chance of posting the reply for the game? |
| #23 Ling-erie[109157] |
| proxy6.leeds.ac.uk |
sorry Kodiak8, Just have to amek do with the ones linked in the report, they show the equivelent builds and stuff, i don't post the replays to the games i report cos some twat then turns around and says:
"You dropped 3 tanks on his ledge not 2, and he tried to expand to 12 then cancelled it wb4 u saw it"
..or some shit which has no bearing on the game but makes them feel like their critical evaluation of the content of the BR detail-wise is helpful/constructive. It's an approximate report from memory with replay only for my help and for pics =/
It prolly sucks anyway, i just hype it up with my writing =] |
| #24 Raider[109169] |
| wkstn113-74.village-c.georgetown.edu |
A deep6 report and a deep6 advocate who is not me or Heart.
Great report ling.
9 |
| #25 Raider[109172] |
| wkstn113-74.village-c.georgetown.edu |
As for ghosts, lock down, and nukes, they really become necessary if the game is a close one. When I used deep6 vs someone good, I often ended up with lock down army of about 12 fully upgraded ghosts. Lock down everything. Carriers, shuttles, revers, goons, hell man, I even locked down a probe that was trying o run away. Seriously lock down solves your problems vs toss.
Also as you mentioned, and as I say, storm is NOT such a big deal. Terran infantry owned :) |
| #26 Napoleic[109173] |
| 24.67.190.196 |
Some comments:
Normally if a terran player tries deep 6 vs he loses map control, not the other way around. Goons with temp back up sitting in the middle is basically impossible to dislodge with mm/tank. In this case you're upgrades and micro were better, but trust me when I say its easier to storm effectively then it is to dodge effectively. Especially when you use goons. The game has always come down to the terran dropping me with mm/ghosts/nuke while I sit in the middle trying to starve him (since it's equally pointless to try to attack an mm terran, as even Carriers don't work)
Also a Double robo opening should own you. It's risky but I'd say it's in the toss's favour, ease of micro wise.
|
| #27 Napoleic[109174] |
| 24.67.190.196 |
Finally Im not convinced that 3-3-3 mixed toss ground is not cost effective vs pure 3-3 mm/tank. I would think you'd need tank upgrades to be sure you're getting cost efficiency, and that winds up costing more then toss upgrades. DT's may not be the best, but if you mix them in with zealots they can own, since tanks will see toss's uncloaked units first and focus on them, giving your dts a little extra time to get in close, and once they are close, well, 1 hit kills.
Alternative MCTFB answer: go arbiters and Dark Archons. Maelstrom owns marines, or alternatively feedback all vessels then let your arbiter cloaked troops (or dts) just rape everything he has. Plus if you hear nuke launch detected, you can simply recall the targetted probes onto his silo, killing the nuke before it can launch BY THE VERY SAME PROBES IT WAS MEANT TO KILL ISNT THAT IRONY LOLOLOLOL!!!!
|
| #28 Raider[109176] |
| wkstn113-74.village-c.georgetown.edu |
Nap, I agree with your first post. Deep6 does aim at expansion kill via nukes/dropships.
However, in your second post you talk about temps storming etc etc, basically the things most people say when they hear of deep 6. However, you are not takinginto consideration on thing. Toss units need to kill helluva lot of rines to be cost-effective. A temp has to storm 5-6 rines. A DT has to hack just as many. For a goon is 4 rines. Now, will EVERY toss unit be able to do that. My practice sys no. |
| #29 Raider[109178] |
| wkstn113-74.village-c.georgetown.edu |
Usually when I finish a deep6 game, I end up with close to 1:1 to 1:1.5 kill ration vs toss troops (I am referring to the times when he does not go carriers, cus they usually dont, and with carriers it's a bit different since interceptor kills also count). Now as I have pointed out in previous post, toss troops cost a lot more. Granted there are probe kills in there, but probes are far more valuable that rines. Also of course there are tank kills and firebat and ghost losses on your side, so the numbers kinda go down from simple marine ratio, however it still ends up that cost-for cost you win.
I speak from practice since I used to do this strat a lot when I played terran. |
| #30 Raider[109179] |
| wkstn113-74.village-c.georgetown.edu |
The point is, it's hard for toss to beat terran cost for cost. As long as you keep up in resources, you win, that is the point of deep6.
Also, I disagree with the way ling does it. He uses simple MM and tanks with some SVs. Now when he is better then his opponent that's OK, however when the skill is close, you MUST have drops, ghosts, nukes, and all that stuff because that is what gives you the edge. |
| #31 Napoleic[109180] |
| px2ht.ok.shawcable.net |
Well Raider I think that even if toss does as poorly as to only go 1:1 with terran, he should still be ahead given that he should be expanding so much more and mining so many more resources. Terran can still harass exps or whatnot but really put up 3-4 cannons, obba, and an HT or two and terran should not sucessfully harass any expansion.
I don't think Deep 6 is a bad strat, but I don't think its better then metal vs toss, and I think I pretty much every pro gamer agrees with me on that one. |
| #32 Ling-erie[109181] |
| host213-1-70-250.dial.btopenworld.com |
raider thx
Napoleic.... thx and ROFL =] |
| #33 Napoleic[109183] |
| px2ht.ok.shawcable.net |
| lets game guys, my toss vs your terrans.. gogo nohunters! |
| #34 Napoleic[109184] |
| px2ht.ok.shawcable.net |
| btw gosu report Ling-Erie. I always did first person perspecitive when I br'd too. Only problem is it sort of gives away who wins, since no one in their right mind can get the energy to detail themselves getting their ass kicked ^^ |
| #35 Ling-erie[109188] |
| host213-1-70-250.dial.btopenworld.com |
| fool, see my last report =p |
| #36 kaej[109189] |
| 64-213-127-149.roc.frontiernet.net |
| napoleic knows what's up. if skill is equal, then deep6 loses everytime. a toss doesn't lose to a terran of equal skill that goes m+m in any form. period. |
| #37 Raider[109191] |
| wkstn113-74.village-c.georgetown.edu |
kaej,
I don't think you tried deep6 ever in your life... If you did, you'd know called deep an MM strat is as far from the truth as you can get. It relies on infantry, but there's just so much more to it.
I wish I could prove this by playing tvp and using deep6, unfortunately, as Napoleic saw, since I quit playing terran and play toss, my terran skills have deteriorated to complete nil. However, back when I did play terran, I have used the strat a lot and have won with. Many people in NH could attest to that if they reach back far enough and recall playing Rawl. The one example that comes to mind is Frost. Unfortunately no rep since that was back 1.07.
But like I said I can't prove it by doing it myself, unless I invest some time in actually practicing terran again. |
| #38 Napoleic[109195] |
| px2ht.ok.shawcable.net |
After having 3 games with Raider we conclusively proved that we suck at terran, toss went 3-0 =p
But speaking as a toss player, deep 6 is a lot more annoying, but metal is a lot more threatening. Games vs deep6 terran are long, frustrating affairs where you're forced to sit at supply limit taking it up the ass from all the nukes and firebat drops he can throw at you until finally he runs out of resources and has to quit. I once played a deep 6 terran where he mined out his main and nat and played on for 20 minutes just playing around with ghosts science vessels irradiating and locking me down, trying to get me to attack him. Gayest 1:10 game ever =[ |
| #39 fearlessguy[109196] |
| gateway.dprcssb.edu.on.ca |
btw ?what is ur b.net name rabid racoon ?
i might have met ya |
| #40 Rabid_Raccoon[109203] |
| A010-0002.BTVL.splitrock.net |
| my bnet names are Rabid_Raccoon (go figure) and Blinding_Shadow when i feel like it |
| #41 Raider[109204] |
| wkstn113-74.village-c.georgetown.edu |
Well, I played a game using deep6 after playing vs Napoleic. This guy's toss was a closer to my level of terran than Nap's, so it ended up beign a good game. He won, but it was a close call. Better use of ghosts by me, a bit more tanks, and walling off my 3 o'clock expansion would have made a big difference. Also look at kill ratio at the end. It's not even 1:2 in favor of toss, and he was using massive storm.
The replay is available in the replays section under my name. I am using the name L-Pigeon in it. |
| #42 Prester John[109208] |
| 137.187.48.255 |
"I took the centre, setting up the perfect position to be horribly flanked from."
Haha.
Nice report, Ling; I really liked the writing, and TvP is just an interesting matchup, esp. when the Terran wins, and esp. when he does it with Deep 6.
I'm finding the discussion of Deep 6 to be interesting, too. I've just killed and been killed by psi storm too often to have any confidence in that strat. |
| #43 NotDefault[109214] |
| h24-83-95-176.vs.shawcable.net |
Excellent. Though it's redundant, I'd recommend using mini-maps next report - with them, this could have been a 10. Still, it is a great 9.
NotDefault |
| #44 Patton1944[109236] |
| spider-wi071.proxy.aol.com |
| Ling, your reports are sexy. I want to have your love child. |
| #45 Sync[109250] |
| cs242232-100.houston.rr.com |
| title pics looked ownage! i was looking for more like that below, but i saw none |
| #46 |]agomar[109267] |
| StCatherines-ppp109085.sympatico.ca |
| I read it again. Man I love BRs like these! |
#47  [109282] |
| ct91955-a.richmnd1.in.home.com |
Three 9's, must... not... conform.
Can't help... it... |
| #48 Furious[109298] |
| bal-ts3-2500.tpgi.com.au |
| Ownage in a can..........moremormeomroemroemroe |
| #49 Ling-erie[109301] |
| proxy6.leeds.ac.uk |
thx dref =p appreciated.
My imput on deep-6 discussion:
You're supposed to do a 2-fac metal opening and add infantry later. This allows you to choose your strat of choice at any time during early game dependidn on whether toss goes mass ground or limited ground with storm (clearly not a good time to go ddeep-6).
Remember that original tank drop replay on New Remote Outpost way back last year when replays were new? It was Slayers_`BoxeR` vs Spunky.
Boxer did a more efficient deep-6 in that game and won when toss went carriers (he was storming, but the heavy tank back-up was hurting him too badly). Just shows that infantry and metal are a usable combination. If ppl can metal vs zerg then i see no reason why ppl can't infantry vs Toss, they just have to accept that they're going to take horrendous losses for the entire game. If you can replace them at a similar rate (ie, macro reallly well) then you're likely to win in the end. |
| #50 Ling-erie[109302] |
| proxy6.leeds.ac.uk |
Small note: I rush to 3:3 infantry cos they totally rape toss in mid-game. This is cos most toss players are 1:0:2 at this point. If a toss player got 3 forges on the go from the off-set and was capable of using feedback on the vessels, then i think that this strat would die horribly, but that requires more micro than storming, and isn't really all that likely.
I have no doubts in my mind that the essence of infantry/tank combinations vs protss is a totally sound strategy and with the right amount of practice (most ppl assume it doesn't work, never try it and then flame it to hell blindly cos they don't know how to actually do it hint hint #38). It's just like ppl thought vultures were shit for years until ppl learned how to use them. Infantry are a good unit, just perhaps goinf a bit more firebat heavy would be better so if he storms your infantry then he's raping his own zealots at the same time.
|
| #51 Ling-erie[109303] |
| proxy6.leeds.ac.uk |
PPL seem to think that storm will always rape it, but if a temp can storm then for the dame energy a vessel can irradiate a temp or EMP numerous temps and units before an attack.
I think ppl are too closed minded on the subject, it's like saying "u can' make hydra vs toss cos they'll get rocked b storm". Of course they will, that's why u spend all your time replacing them. 2 factories and 6 barracks were enough in all my games to date. If you want to win vs an equal skill protoss then u may want to make 20 barracks and 6 facs if your macro isn't godly. Just so long as you can support it. If you let money build up then you probably won't have the troop count to secure the income you need.
Oh, and scout rushes don't work vs my deep-6...and ask cold`fusion =]
Character limit is really fuxxing annoying =[ |
| #52 |||l||||ll|||||[109350] |
| cdm-66-5-143-tylr.cox-internet.com |
| gj, 8-10 |
| #53 badtz maru[109407] |
| pcp108471pcs.echryh01.nj.comcast.net |
| i dont get what deep6 means yet... |
| #54 CaughtNaked[109429] |
| 206.215.14.175 |
hi ling =o
we hav to finish r 1v1s.
perhasps
rofl! :}
hi everyone i knoe
deep6 = 6 rax
how do u shift quen a peon?
10! |
| #55 Raider[109434] |
| wkstn113-243.village-c.georgetown.edu |
| Ok, well as to badtz asking what deep6 means... Most people nowadays refer to any infantry-based strat vs prtoss as deep6. However originally it was a strat designed by Heartcutter that relied on infantry drops and nukes to kill protoss expansion while pushing in the middle with the classic turret/bunker/tank. For him also ghosts were the essential part of the strat, however many people do not understand how to use them or the nukes and thus deep6 nowasays most often refrs to any infantry bases tvp strat. |
| #56 Ling-erie[109470] |
| host62-7-65-30.dial.btopenworld.com |
good point raider: i was trying to emulate deep-6 and if the game went on then i may have gotten to ghosts, but as it was, my strat was essentially just another infantry vs protoss game, not really deep-6 at all.
I'd just prefer to stim all my marines than lockdown a few goons, it makes them faster for storm-dodging and thus more effective cos they live longer, but if u have bunkers then i gues ghosts are a great asset to the team. |
| #57 Darth Sidious[109555] |
| 145.85.143.178 |
nice report.
i'm gonna stay out of strategical debate...
Report is nice though |
| #58 -fate[109650] |
| dsl-64-130-48-165.telocity.com |
| way to own that pubbie newbie |
| #59 -fate[109651] |
| dsl-64-130-48-165.telocity.com |
| wait thats ink....my bad....way to own that pubbie newbie |
| #60 Raider[109748] |
| wkstn113-243.village-c.georgetown.edu |
| haha -fate |
| #61 woden[109767] |
| AC9EFD75.ipt.aol.com |
very nicely written br, thanks.
|
| #62 Krebs[109998] |
| h0008c78fa265.ne.mediaone.net |
| uhh ink is terran player, youre a newbie dick |
| #63 Somebody...[110348] |
| bgp546846bgs.ewndsr01.nj.comcast.net |
| excellent analysis |
| #64 Tavernology[110381] |
| 1Cust188.tnt5.adl1.da.uu.net |
Excellent report! Easy 9, but a 10 considering the recent shit.
Storm ownz my rines, I tend to have too few medics there.
Ghosts and meds can stand storm better then rines (ghosts have more HP, more armor), but rines can run better.
A nice trick is 1:1:1 ratio of rines:ghosts:medics, and see what happens in a fight. |
| #65 Heartcutter[110944] |
| bus204a1.sfsu.edu |
Good story and good report. 3:3 marines are definitely the bomb.
As for myself, I've been pretty busy. I'm in grad school right now over at San Francisco State doing my MBA with concentration in International Business.
I should also be studying for midterms next week, but I've got too much of a beer-buzz going on. Oh, and I'm getting married too.
Tip- Don't propose when you're hung over.
-Heartcutter
|
| #66 SiG.[111254] |
| host-216-77-220-111.fll.bellsouth.net |
| *Que wedding music* |
| #67 badasskid[111675] |
| 1Cust52.tnt12.nyc9.da.uu.net |
| awesome report. detailed. look forward to ur reports. |
| #68 badasskid[111676] |
| 1Cust52.tnt12.nyc9.da.uu.net |
i give it a 9
|
| #69 cRaZy MoRoN[111685] |
| px2so.cg.shawcable.net |
I have to say, I never gone through a whole BR like that. Ussually I just take a few minutes to review the images and the view key points to the battle report because a lot of the time I find that some battle reports get boring at the beginning and don't really add any flavor to the stew. This however got my hooked right away, and I kept reading it like it was a novel that I couldn't put down for a second.
I wish I could make BR's like that :). Perhaps I will... in the near future. |
| #70 HUK HUK NO DIS[123881] |
| 209.151.242.53 |
#29: "Plus if you hear nuke launch detected, you can simply recall the targetted probes onto his silo, killing the nuke before it can launch BY THE VERY SAME PROBES IT WAS MEANT TO KILL ISNT THAT IRONY LOLOLOLOL!!!!"
ROFLMAO |
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