"did you put in the Zileas quote?"
-[FLS]Prozerran
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| #1 Elendale[45881] | | 205-213-43-168.sdlax.k12.wi.us | Nice. And FIRST! And I actually read it!
-Elendale | | #2 Elendale[45882] | | 205-213-43-168.sdlax.k12.wi.us | Nice. And FIRST! And I actually read it!
-Elendale | | #3 Elendale[45883] | | 205-213-43-168.sdlax.k12.wi.us | Ack... now I'm spamming...
-Elendale (is a spamming spammer) | | #4 diego_santana[45884] | | 206.21.88.13 |
I guess going RAX first is the way to go to stop the early-poolers... That'll allow you to get more/quicker marines as well as a bunker. Of course that only works against a KNOWN zerg...
Also, a little early scouting would have allowed terran to see the early pool and/or lings and he could have blocked his ramp with 2 or 3 SCV's with a couple of marines behind them.
-diego_santana | | #5 shockwave[45900] | | exchange1.sensable.com | Eh, the point of the game was not that he early pooled, it's that he failed to deal with the offensive hatch.
I think the Terran either underproduced or teched too quickly. He was also building an awful lot of bunkers. The offensive hatch works wonders if he doesn't see it coming. But if he's doing a standard 3 rax against Zerg, he should be able to get enough marines to hold off the ling threat. I dunno why he even built a bunker next to his CC in the beginning, that is by in large unnecessary when you're TvZ. When you have enough (i.e. critical mass) marines, you don't need a bunker to ward off zerglings.
I would venture that the Terran player decided to tech straight to tanks, and underproduced units (you'll notice that he had 2 depots up while his 2nd rax was still building, which means he probably went for some crazy depot/rax/refinary/depot/rax build). That's pretty suicidal again Zerg; at least if you're to do that, build the bunker at your ramp instead of inside your wallin.
| | #6 Syndrome Zed[45909] | | wmb6217-daley.neuro.emory.edu | I agree with shock.
Had it been me, and I only saw the off hatch the same time he did, I wouldn't have bothered with wasting 100's of minerals on a bunker creep when sunkens outrange bunks. I'd have gotten a third rax like shock suggested and pumped marines like crazy, then getting an acad and gas for medics if I could afford the minerals. With a decent marine force he could have either forced your lings into a confrontation away from the sunkens or targeted any drone that tried to extend the creep colonies towards your base. The extra marines would give him time to get to medics or to tech to factory units/tanks. I don't think I'd go for factory though against zerg unless I saw you bringing hydras to help defend the off hatch.
The one other thing which a friend of mine did against someone who did something similar was to throw up a bunker and have 2 scv's repairing it while it fired on the hatch, even though it was getting hit by sunkens. In the meantime he sent a counterattack force of 6 marines (he had gone 3 rax right away) to do what damage he could. Even though he couldn't do a lot of damage, he forced the zerg into building lings and a sunken at his main to defend against the rines, which kept him from doing anything with the off hatch while he got medics. He managed to kill off the offensive hatch a few minutes after the first medics popped out, and then went on to win the game.
| | #7 BW-sux[45926] | | spider-wb063.proxy.aol.com | | Nice Alt Text. | | #8 Limp_Bizkit666[45931] | | whv-ca3a-220.rasserver.net | hmmm... nice idea..
"cheese of the month"... but the thing is that cheeses will run out soon.. =]
oh well...
have fun using Canon Push, Peon RUshes, and Offensive Bunkers, Rax floats on islands, and guardian rushes for your ideas. =]
byeya
p.s-oh yeah, i forgot defieler rush and plaguing all terran buildings = fun too.. =] | | #9 diego_santana[45946] | | gah227176.columbus.rr.com | | The point of the rush is that you can have 6 lings and be building an offensive hatch (and more zerglings) on him before he has sufficient marine numbers. The only counter to this would be bunkering your ramp immediately after first hatch, IMHO. 3-RAX's wouldn't have helped because by the time you got enough marines to take on the zerglings the hatch would be complete and sunkens would be incoming. Yes, zerglings > marines in small numbers in the open. And 2 sunkens are MUCH > than hordes of marines without medics. | #10  [45947] | | as530090.infocom.com | Kinda funny, really short.
6
Dref | | #11 PHA']['-MAN~PK[45990] | | spider-wd034.proxy.aol.com | | I played a 1v1 against fox^1 i was terran he was zerg. WALLIN IS NOT GOOD VS ZERG. About 30 seconds after my wallin was finished he had 9 pooled me and took out my wallin with ease. This forced me back into the heart of my base to make marines by my cc. Fox^1 then just keep rallying ling to the ramp of my base and offensive hatched me. I tried to go for tanks but his ling would come around out of bunker range and hit my factory. Probably my fault. And anywayz after that once a zerg gets that offensive hatch going, EVEN if you stop it it still means that the zerg is expanding like made. After a while Fox^1 hit me with about 10 mutas and it was all over. Either i suck bad or wallin really sucks. I think it's a little of both =) | | #12 CynicalMagician[46004] | | px1cl.gv.wave.shaw.ca | I find wallin really hard depending on your start position. 9 and 6 are relatively easy to get a wallin going, and 3 isn't that bad, but 12 is damn near impossible. Whenever I'm terran and in the 12 spot I dont even bother trying to wall-in my ramp. It works way better to just plunk your buildings on the lower area below the ramp. I put 1 rax and a depot or two at the top of the ramp, then my other 2 rax's at the bottom of the ramp, and then rally most of my guys to the top of the ramp, but leave 1-2 marines on the bottom rank. Seems to at least hinder my death >).
-CynicalMagician | #13  [46447] | | 136.2.1.101 | | good report. I have been "had" by the offensive hatch too many times. | | #14 HarvKilljoy[46704] | | s2130.seacove.net | Hmm... where to begin...
I had the pleasure of playing my first two ladder matches on this map, and lost horribly on the first one, sigh, but the second one, aye, that's the match that bears some writing about!
I play Terran exclusively, and my opponent was 'Toss for our match-up. My start position was at the three o'clock, and his, I never really found, due to his employment of a similar tactic to the Offensive Hatch, the Cannon Push- similar in effect, if nothing else, and that is to prevent me from expanding outward.
I had sent Marines out early to recon his position, but never really got into his base, never found the damned thing, really. I was found by wandering Zealots, and then those wanderers wandered over to my main, up my ramp, and proceded to wreak their psychic-bladed vengeance upon my camp.
Perserverence, kiddies, perserverence! I NEVER give up, and this time was no exception. I'd had a bunker for safe-keeping, and a marine or two actually made it in there, firing up on those haples 'Lots with reckless abandon from the safe confines of a lone bunker surrounded by SCV's.
Got a little dicey, though, and by the time I recovered, there were those glowing li'l warp rifts all along the lower cliff from my ramp... hmmm... "Gee, I wonder what Uncle Bob's up to?" I thought to myself... like I'd never seen THIS tactic before... =)
Well, to make my otherwise LONG story a bit shorter, I managed to make a few bunkers above my ramp, backed up with a few turrets for those invisible Little Buddies called the Dark Templar, and I proceeded to pound on those pesky Photon Cannons from the relative safety of those bunkers. With SCV's patching up the occasional pot-shot that landed on my bunkers -remember, uphill shots are at a 70% hit probability- I eventually razed the seven or so cannons and pylons below the cliff.
I eventually... get it? eventually? ... sigh ... teched up to Siege Tanks and then I gained control of the natural below my base. My point with the sarcasm here is that he'd already slowed me down enough that I thought for sure I was a goner. Remember that perserverence I'd mentioned earlier? NEVER give up!
He was disconnected shortly thereafter, and I COUGH! won... a hollow victory, and I really consider it a LOSS, but that's not the point here, now, is it? See what I mean about LONG stories?
ANYWAY, the offensive hatch is simply a logical extension of the cannon/bunker/sunken push. They prevent the opponent from really getting anywhere fast, and even lead up to their demise if not handled immediately. Bottom line is that they buy you a lot of TIME. They get it relatively easily, too. You get a lot of time to go expand and have all the resources you need at your disposal, whilst your opponent has to deal with the threat immediately or die, all while having been bottled up away from those oh-so-precious resources that you're now gobbling up for YOUR offensive!
Anywho, I'm about to try out something I'd not tried before, and that's massed Vultures in the offense and defense. I've given up, more or less, on the bunker defense in lieu of the BUTTLOAD OF MARINES defense. It's a LOT more fun, at least if you like the sound of gauss rifles ripping up stuff... I just thought that adding bikers on hovercycles with grenade launchers and ATTITUDE into the mix would be a good way to spice up things a bit.
Not that I'm cooking here... until next time, keep your hands on the hotkeys, and before I start sounding like Redd Green, I'll close with a "Tschus, Auf Wiedersehen!"
HARV |
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