"This report is crap, followed by more crap."
-BW-sux
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| #1 GoldenH[29926] | | nas-33-252.chicago.navinet.net | | Death to BGH! :) | | #2 Dyslexic_Zealot[29928] | | 199.94.70.58 | You've learned a very important lesson here.
BTW, decent BR.
-Dyslexic Zealot | | #3 Baxter-O'Bixby[29929] | | brooke.CS.Berkeley.EDU | | It's unfortunate that it's nigh impossible to get a decent game on any map besides BGH. Let me know when you play that 4v1, though; that's one I'd love to BR. ;-) | | #4 GoldenH[29930] | | nas-33-252.chicago.navinet.net | Thanks for the support guys, Baxter, ya got a observer map of BGH? :)
*shudder*
never thought i'd ask that one. | | #5 RootBreaker[w][29936] | | slip-32-101-129-245.mn.us.prserv.net | | An observer map of BGH would eliminate starting spots. I bet he'd just observe it with the terran CC liftoff. | | #6 PunitiveDamages[29943] | | node121.nodezero.net | Decent report. although you might want to cut back on your use of "own". Lets look in our thesaurus:
Own (o-ne) v. 1. to possess, as in property 2. to completely obliterate your opponent, as in Starcraft
Synonyms- rape, school, beat, whip, spank, waste, wipe out, crush
Feel free if anybody would like to add to these. I just got tired of reading "owned" in your BR. Its a good word but its overused and losing its credibility. =P
and get off that BGH! its harmful to your health. | | #7 BGH r lame[29950] | | netcache1.is.co.za | Yep. It's true folks... Surprisingly enough.
Oh, BTW, I am not Dyslexic_Zealot. I am simply a mental affliction that can't spell itself... The Zealot that follows me around is called Fred.
-dis
P.S. WTF do so many Koreans hate me?! I mean, it's not as though I'm good, but everywhere I look, "no dis"! | | #8 AngryDrunk[29955] | | c314744-b.rchdsn1.tx.home.com | Well Goldenh, I have to question one of your final thoughts, "BGH as a map kicks major ass," it doesn't make sense to me. BGH provides a main, a natural expansion, and a mineral only natural expansion, for the lazy non expander that usually plays this map. I see no upside to this, as I am the type who likes to fight tooth and nail over expansions, and make the opponent do otherwise. I am the type who plays twister aggresively, slowly forcing opponents off <bold>MY</bold> cheap plastic playing tarp. I deplore watching my roomates (who seem to have a rather fondness for this terrible abomination) sit in one base, sending <bold>wave after wave</bold> of dragoons, zealots, hydras, zerglings, marines, goliaths, tanks, carriers, arbiters, cruisers, guardians, and devourers at the enemy, crashing against all too easily replacable cannons / bunkers / turrets / sunkens / spore colonies, knowing that they, themselves, are also tucked away 4 layers deep in the same static defenses that BGH makes into abominations.
I have never heard any argument for playing BGH that could convince (even a teeny weeny bit) it had any value value as a map.
Sadly, the one that came closest was something to the effect of "It takes more skill to beat a person when they have the full facilities to produce units and the resources to use them." The obvious counter argument I stated, that that was true on any map, not just BGH, was lost on the staunch BGH supporter. Can anyone tell me why it's a good map?
I, knowing that I should post some points that support my position, despise the fact that a player can use an opening build similar to:
8 pylon
10 forge
12 cannon
13 cannon
14 cannon
ad infinitum (...ad nauseum)
and not be at any tactical disadvantage to a player who actually <bold>makes some offensive units before the midgame</bold>
I seem to find myself believing that the more plentiful the resources on a map, the less strategy involved. When presented with a near infinite supply of minerals and gas, a player seems dramatically less hesitant about waging a war of attrition, and in my experience, it is not uncommon to find a BGH game with unit losses in the thousands.
To me, and it may always be this way, It's a map one can play when they don't want to strategize, after all, unupgraded marines > reavers, temps, carriers, goons; <bold>IF you send enough.</bold>
I appreciate your patience, sorry about the rant, but the entire damned idea of BGH bothers me, it's too closely tied with manifest destiny, I suppose.
--
Drunk
| | #9 er[29958] | | s045.paris-162.cybercable.fr | | marines <<<<< reavers at whatever number | | #10 Shampoo[29962] | | 24.65.81.66.on.wave.home.com | BGH kicks ass what are you guys talking about
Teaches you to ... relax!
After playing ladder maps with good people its nice once in a while to play a 2v2 or a 3v3 bgh where you can beat everyone easily and laugh | | #11 TheCabbit[29968] | | bgm-57-110.stny.rr.com | | It's not fun when 24 carriers come on you =( Static defenses sux on BGH. If I play I put up 6 cannons in front so I can stop any rush and tech and I put a light ring around my base so I can get incoming drops which seem to be occur quite a lot. Most of the time I send 2 zeals out w/ my ally and run into their peon lines bwahahahahaha =] | | #12 GoldenH[29977] | | st-207-63-222-98.d200.mchenry.k12.il.us | Those of you who are arguing over my belief that BGH is an okay map - it is what it stands for - a way to kick major ass. If you do what you say is the problem, IE bunker in and go carriers, you WILL loose to pretty much anybody. Especially if you are Terrans. BGH is the only map I know of where I can take out a turo-expander w/o expanding...
The problems you complain of are because of the newbiness of the players, not the suckiness of the map. If players like Grrr.. and Soso or Maynard played on BGH, they'd almost never loose - because it's a great map. And I guarantee it wouldn't be the way we think of it - the "BGH" we hate is not the map, but the way the map is played. | #13  [29992] | | chello212186163122.ibk.surfer.at | if u think BGH is dumb, try to dl one of its clones, like Ice BGH
6.
"I like StarCraft, not BGH"
- necrosausage!
| | #14 mofo[29995] | | hem-53-0244.direct.ca | LOL
Yo drunk, care to explain to me the parallels between BGH and manifest destiny in more detail?
I'd love to hear it. | | #15 Syndrome Zed[29998] | | wmblab-Rye.neuro.emory.edu | While I don't get the manifest destiny ref either, I've got to agree with Drunk. BGH as a map is pretty bad. Course, Necro's got a point - I got into a game with a map that turned out to be a BGH clone (but without the BGH name), and yeah, it was *far* worse than anything I'd seen. Imagine 6x4 blocks of mineral patches at the mains, with 2 geysers and max gas. Expansions were "mineral poor" - only 16 mineral patches each in 2 rows of eight. I took the draw and left the game.
Golden, you need to recon better - turbo-exp'ers are not too scary if you see that they're doing it since you'll have a decent troop advantage to take out what should be at least 1 nearly undefended expansion out of the 2 or 3. But as far as BGH is concerned, it does promote a lack of strategic thinking. The only strategy needed is build waves of troops, throw them to the dogs, lather, rinse, repeat. While ppl may try drops and occasionally do something a little more advanced, the map is what encourages the players to be as bad as they are. Look what Dref did to some of the BGHers with his older BR's. Dropping 40 or 50 drones should not be a viable strategy.
I guess it's kind of a chicken and egg thing - which came first? Did bad players give up and stick with BGH, or did BGH and the other money maps turn these ppl into even worse players than they were by the bad habits they encourage? | | #16 Shampoo[30005] | | 24.65.81.66.on.wave.home.com | Hello ?
Anybody listening ?
Bgh is not a bad map
Just a cooler version of hunters
Why are you people talking about bgh clones now
They are totally different, and yes, worse
Think of bgh like a map settings, a great way to play...
Then u'll think differntly.
| | #17 Shampoo[30008] | | 24.65.81.66.on.wave.home.com | Hello ?
Anybody listening ?
Bgh is not a bad map
Just a cooler version of hunters
Why are you people talking about bgh clones now
They are totally different, and yes, worse
Think of bgh like a map settings, a great way to play...
Then u'll think differntly.
| | #18 AngryDrunk[30125] | | c314744-b.rchdsn1.tx.home.com | Mofo and Zed (and to whomever else may care.):
The ref to manifest destiny was a bit of a play at my entire rant, I realized I had been a bit too serious, and added a necessary herring.
If I might be allowed to fly by the seat of my pants:
Essentially, Settlers, when presented with the (imagined) infinite resources in the new world (ahem, notice the parallels?) valued everything less, on balance.
In a nutshell, units are scaled to near worthlessness in BGH. The sheer concentration of wealth devalues every unit produced.
Play a 2 player map with mains and one natural expansion, and see how much you have to think about what you are going to make, especially when you are mined out and have to choose between 13 marines/7 medics and 7 wraiths.
European settlers, and later, American citizens were wasteful with the resources they had, hell, they were so plentiful the settlers could afford to throw away a million acres of forest here, spoil a few rivers there. Only after we realized resources were indeed finite, did we start to manage them more (if we every did before).
Once again, I appreciate your time.
Friends don't let friends play BGH.
--
Drunk | | #19 dr_scribble[30128] | | proxy1.sch.prodigy.net | | yea i second watever it is the the drunk guy said | | #20 Mario-im from poland -its not the name of nick[30130] | | nat.cs.bialystok.pl | | BGH suxx only newbies are playing on bhg's in poland | | #21 Mario(same)[30131] | | nat.cs.bialystok.pl | msg to shampoon
you know what ? bgh's is for lames who dont know how to make a base ... thats my way of thinkin and trust me i know what i am talkin about | | #22 snowjob[30169] | | co210284-a.kico1.on.wave.home.com | *sigh*
u guys just happened to stomp across bad BGH players
some good ones have insane single-base macro skill with like 12 gates with light cannon defense, not everyone goes 50 cannons + carriers
try playing a BGH expert and out-goon'ing him and upgrading faster
yes they will suck on the so-called non-newbie maps, but i just see BGH as a different style of playing starcraft.
why diss people who aren't as good and go around calling them lamers/newbies? for those of you mindlessly diss'ing BGH players - u guys should be glad - these BGH players are the ones that make you look better than the rest
a lotta ppl play starcraft, not everyone's aimed to grow up to be maynard the 2nd, some just want to have some fun with their buddies and BGH provides them the fun since it involves less hardcore skills to have fun, not everyone can spare 20 hours a day playing starcraft and reading BR's
angrydrunk - i like ur analogy :) makes great sense
just my 2cents...... | | #23 snowjob[30170] | | co210284-a.kico1.on.wave.home.com | o ya, the redundant usage of "own", "ownage", "ownz", is quite annoying + unnecessary unless being said to a korean
american: gl hf, and i'm gonna own you!
korean: YOU RACE?
american: i'm going random and you're gonna get owned
korean: NO RANDOM, OR OUT
american: fine wutever, i'll use my ownage zerg
korean: ZERG? OK ^^ GG, MANNER PLZ
american: gg? wtf we haven't even started
korean: ? ^^; NO DIS
(and countdowns beings with korean choosing terran or zerg at the last second) | | #24 mofo[30171] | | cr668894-a.poco1.bc.wave.home.com | Hm, i think you have your terms confused, drunk
The notion of manifest destiny is rooted in the idealogy of colonialism. In the relationship between the the colonized and it's colonists, the eventual conversion of culture is the main goal. Most historical examples of colonialization are often mired with violence and oppression as the dominating power (the colonialists) are attempting to subvert the culture and idealogy of the dominated. This forced conversion of culture is, more often than not, a step towards the eventual exploitation of a particular asset of said culture, either for natural resources, cheaper labor, or political gain.
However, the rational behind this often oppressive practice is along the lines of: "we're doing what's best for your underdeveoped country". It's the notion that society and culture is essentially on a linear scale and that the colonialists are essentially a progressive step in the evolution of culture and society. In a sense, the colonialists are facilitating the manifestation of the said country/region/area's desinty. Hence the term Manifest Destiny.
The Crusades can be a good example of the idealogy of manifest destniny. As can the near genocide of the Native American population during the days of the settlers.
Hrmph.. i've been reading too much Marxist theory...
uh.. anyways... what about them zerglings? | | #25 AngryDrunk[30221] | | c314744-b.rchdsn1.tx.home.com | I agree with your analysis, my concept of BGH was bringing into question the methods used during colonialism, not necessarily the driving force behind it. Irreguardless of the ideology behind their subjugation and exploitation, the attitudes behind a string of important decisions were indeed based in the notion that the new world (Especially look at the attitudes present in colonial / developing America, many fallacious ideas about the natural resources present here existed for more than a century.) had such a vast amount of resources that the colonial power could afford to be so wasteful, after all, they truly believed there would always be more.
Not that anyone but me's going to be reading this.
--
Drunk
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