| #1 jeezumcrow[28257] |
| svwebw03.statestreet.com |
| wow great game=) |
| #2 WARBRINGER187[28355] |
| spider-wd022.proxy.aol.com |
| I actually read it. Nice terran strats here continue to whoop ass man |
| #3 Wildfire[28356] |
| wc-np1.hk.linkage.net |
| Copying and pasting now... |
| #4 JAmellan|E|[28357] |
| aden2-143.resnet.Colorado.EDU |
| when do you get on bnet? |
| #5 +AnathemA+[28359] |
| sdn-ar-010azphoeP334.dialsprint.net |
| wtf is with this |E|clipse clan lately, they're everywhere... nice how-to for terran. personally i suck, so this might actually come in handy as opposed to those other strats i see on this page that should be renamed, "strats for those who are godly." i want to see how this strat works against someone good. perhaps a br of this in use? |
| #6 Amber-X[28360] |
| r67h91.res.gatech.edu |
| Wow... I now understand the waypoint system of shift clicking. I never was able to complete the complicated key/mouse sequence of the whole deal. I wonder if it works for other races.... |
#7  [28362] |
| chello212186163122.ibk.surfer.at |
| go amber :) |
| #8 -=Phanta=-[28366] |
| proxy-ext1.omen.net.au |
YOU ROCK HEARTCUTTER!!!!
Keep 'em strats coming hehehehehheh =) |
#9  [28367] |
| dt031nf7.tampabay.rr.com |
| Yeah he needed more shift-queue info. |
| #10 CartoonHero[28369] |
| 24.65.34.50.on.wave.home.com |
| Heartcutter I truly admire you and silent-strike both of you are good terrans. I was wondering against a zerg who takes neutral at the start whats the safest route to go? because if zerg gets neutral you are basically dead in mid game due to the economy zerg has... I tried tank push but most of the time they build enough sunkens to stall that until guardians+scourges come in to play... I cant take my neutral due to lurkers.. until I get siege. Its really a pain Im stuck at around 1150 on ladder.. zerg has been really tearing it up from there onwards.. got any tips? btw do you go 2 barrack opening or 1 and tech to tanks? because 1 barrack is safer for lurkers 2 barracks can set you back for tanks. and super lurkers will kill u soo bad. especially excuted by good zerg players who early pool you distract while teching to lurkers. Anyhow I know Im asking you alot perhaps you can just answer one of the many questions I brought up? thnx a million you will always be my terran idle :) |
| #11 Kirk~skr~[28370] |
| nwcsts11c52.nbnet.nb.ca |
| Yeah but what if your oponents base is full of cannons?? you won't be able to nuke him to well |
| #12 TheCabbit[28371] |
| bgm-57-110.stny.rr.com |
| Tank drops w/ Infantry Backup > Cannons... then just guard your ghost w/ the tanks/infantry while he nukes =p |
| #13 TheCabbit[28372] |
| bgm-57-110.stny.rr.com |
| Oh and, if he's a BGH lamer and you're playing a non cliff map and he rings his base with cannons... Well nuke the bastard or siege tank him from the other side... I like the latter then just get that ghost in and nukes his peons =D (From a position where you won't get nailed by more photons) |
| #14 Fox^1[28374] |
| www-proxy.service.digital.com |
HC your awesome however I didn't even see one bunker? Is it just me or did you have some counter against a mid game rush?? Maybe since you had about 6 rax you used the bunkerless defense. HC mixing all his strats into one deadly one. hehe, great BR
Fox^1
|
| #15 Fox^1[28375] |
| www-proxy.service.digital.com |
Maybe If I read it correctly I would see that you did say you used Bunkerless def. Shows you how well I pay attention.
Fox^1
|
| #16 T_Mac[28376] |
| tbefw1.scar.edu.on.ca |
This is an ok general strat thing, but wheres the br? :(
Btw, storm owns u :D |
| #17 Sp|nE[28379] |
| dialup0927-pri.voicenet.com |
| These are the types of things that amuse me. That terran need these amazingly complex strategies, complete to the most minor detail, to defeat toss. Not saying this strat is bad or anything, it looks real nice on paper. And im sure its effective past paper. Anyway, I will be flamed for this. Have fun flaming me. Bu bye =P |
| #18 RootBreaker[w][28380] |
| s4-146.mpls.k12.mn.us |
| what kind of games are you strats useful for HC? 1v1? 2v2? FFA? |
| #19 Talasar[28381] |
| p424-066.ppp.get2net.dk |
| To Heartcutter. Try looking into combining your 'deep six' with Tiamats 'Orbed marines'. That would work wonders I think. Since it reduces the effectiveness of temps and reavers. Nice strat however. |
| #20 SSD4[28382] |
| user___4.nf.sympatico.ca |
I think a 12 dragoon rush would disable/kill you badly. Maybe. Or a fast 4 zeal rush in which you take out the depot ignoring fire. Also, If you see the red dot, you can look around and find a blurryness in the screen. Psistorm it and nukes don't work.
You gotta realize, that in most cases terran are < protoss and 3 templars can wreck 40 supply of marines. Ask Nanogirl. |
| #21 VeNoM[28383] |
| 207.163.212.2 |
| Why did we need another deep 6 guide? Isn't this practically the same thing...??? |
| #22 Mantra![28384] |
| CE2-P-UNET.unet.maine.edu |
This is one of those strats which looks really good
on paper and is useful to a certain degree in an actual
game. Done well, I believe that it would be a hell of a pain in the ass for a toss to beat.
Unfortunately, I don't see it as offensive enough to beat a good powering protoss. The strat relys alot on small, precision attacks, such as nukes, drops, wraith scouting, etc. Sorry to say, but storm owns any of that.
As for nukes, its very unlikely (though still possible) your gonna beable to nuke an area with a ot of shit without a good toss having an observor or well placed cannon.
Still, its one of the better terran strats i've read and i wont just discard it. This one deserves some testing at least :)
Hes certainly right about the expansion preventing with dships; its about the only way you have a chance to.
Flame Away!
Mantra"/ |
| #23 Tariq[28385] |
| 198.168.49.221 |
6 rax rines vs a toss?
Well if you dont mind getting spanked with storm until you cry like a woman I guess its fine 8(
1 |
| #24 TerranOwnUrBonz[28393] |
| userMd130.videon.wave.ca |
This would be more effective on a zerg with the 6 racks and all....
The nuke would be helpful, but zerg are usually hella hard to nuke.
If u harrass ol's though most ppl will hide them rather than lose supply.
BTW I have beat a storming toss with M&M.
But I did matrix like 5 rines.. |
| #25 Dark_Wanderer[28394] |
| spider-wd053.proxy.aol.com |
on Ghosts cloaking and psi storm. Find me the blurry section in a screen that size, near impossible like trying to point out a chamelon on a tree.
Deep six can work. The idea is to run over the expansions with lots of cheap units (who's abilities grow in leaps and bounds with extra units). Your taking an almost zerg-like standpoint to toss. Attack, die, attack,die,attack,die. The thing is your taking down a near equivalent number of toss units with each attack. Rines do very well against Goon's (roughly twice the firing rate and normal damage vs. 10 damage.) Throw a few meds in the mix and you'll be doing pretty well in terms of cost effectiveness. On top of that a well placed nuke (especially with EMP) is very very cost effective. for the cost of 2 meds and a SV your laying waste to an entire expansion.
If you haven't noticed both of Heartcutter's strats take a non-terran approach to the game (until it is well in hand). Heavy Metal takes a toss standpoint, with 'cloaked' units (mines) for containment. Deep Six takes a zerg standpoint with the mass expendable units. Only till mid or late game does it take the terran standpoint HM with tank pushes DS with nuking. I'm hoping heartcutter will agree with me on this interpretation of his strats. |
| #26 probe[28395] |
| dt121n8a.tampabay.rr.com |
first off, i think your upgrade order should be
cloak/lockdown/whatever
cuz like, thats what i think
2nd off, heartcutter didnt "invent" heavy metal, its just put here
anyhoo i dont want to start another gay flame war
but plz dont say he MADE the strat |
| #27 Warphead[28396] |
| johnny.bath.ac.uk |
Why weapons +1 before armor +1?
Why?
Why?
Why?
That does not make sense. |
| #28 -BF-Teacher[28397] |
| dcurran.resnet.sunysb.edu |
| Cuz Rines are Range troops. And weapons before armore go best with the range troops. Also u are looking to deal mass damage with this strat and also take heavy casualties. So your 12 marines or 40 marines dying is just part of the deal. |
| #29 Heartcutter[28398] |
| adsl-63-198-40-138.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net |
Little things...
BTW, thanks for all the feedback.
Why damage instead of armor? Armor is usually better for melee units (must reach the target to deal damage), as opposed to ranged units (kill 'em before they get there philosophy).
Vs zerg, I always cliff siege if they power. You can also deal with lurkers well at your choke because they have to get past your wall. And it does take time to do that.
-HC |
| #30 [MrFurious][28399] |
| pega.globetrotter.net |
| From a purely philosophical point-of-view I dislike this strat because of the mass casualties you consider as being ‘Cost of doing business’ Don’t all these marines have families????? |
| #31 Fox^1[28402] |
| www-proxy.service.digital.com |
What if you start at the 12:00 position HC?
Fox^1 |
| #32 ~LifeIsPeachy~[28403] |
| 207-172-65-235.s235.tnt6.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com |
My opinions as a toss player:
This strat vs. toss, as I think it was specialized for (wasn't it?)
Goddamn you HeartCutter... first you publish your Heavy Metal build which, when done well, raped me %100 for nearly 2 months. Then I started goon containing, and most terrans I play don't know how to follow up the failed vulture attack w/7 Facs making a goliath/tank combo, with a few vulutes for mines. Even so, a good toss can usually win vs. this with marco/dweb (or psi storm).
Then comes Deep6. You've analized the protoss further... now almost all of them will start out with 2 gate goon contain to counter HM. Personally, I expand once or twice, then macro goons and tech up. I have minimal defence, since 1) You're choke is contained, even if its a thin line of goons stretching out into, say, Lost Temple's center area and 2) 2 cannons/1-2 templar are usually enough to hold until reenforcments come. Deep6 seems to be made to counter all this nicely. Now I have never fought Deep6. I've always wanted to, but all my games nowadays seem to be Toss vs a power hydra Zerg (sometimes muties, if they're creative). Anyway, here's my picture of how a Lost Temple game would go vs. this new bitch creation of HeartCutter.
I go 2 gate goon contain. If he tried to break out early, he will either lose or be pushed back in by reenforcments. Once I have the money (or if I can get it from canceling 1 goon), I expand to another main. If somehow it looks like I can get away with it, I expand again (but not under a turbo newbie cliff). I then try and judge what he is doing. If I see more than 5 marines, I usually will go templar. If I see HM, I go Dweb. I probably would have chosen psi storm. Once I get it w/ a few templar, I would try to expand again. But now, I would start to take fire.
My opponent would have seen my expansion and would now be 2 dropship marine dropping it (maybe even earlier... though I hope to god not). Psi storm rips through the air. Marines die. Cannons shoot. Dragoons head toward the area. Perhaps more storm. My probes come off my minerals to help the cannon. If I lose this expansion, then I expect the game is his. But if I don't... well... I may still be screwed.
HeartCutter knows that good toss normally don't feel the need for lots of observers vs. terran. So this strat takes advantage. He nukes my expansion. I fire 2 random psi storms. Maybe I hit. Maybe not. I'd give it a 50/50. If he's got SVs for EMP/Dmatrix, well, crap. I keep cranking the goons/temps. I can't go carriers, because of lockdown. I have to spend a lot of money defending my expansions, if I still have them. If he kills 1, then he's gaining control. If he kills 2, then he's won. I might have to get get Dweb, if there are too many tanks getting too bitchy, and I might get 1-2 DAs for feedback. My gas would be hurting because of obs/temps. If he got a 2nd expansion running, then I'm in BIG trouble. This game is not heading in my direction :-(
HeartCutter, is that pretty much a summery of the games you've played this on? I find it hard to imagine, with the possible early HM branch off and the mass marines, that it could go in a very different direction. O, and might you be willing to publish the best counters you've run into for this strat? That's an important part of writing strategies... describing the best counters it will need to face. And goddamn it, I wanna face this strat sometime. Zergies are getting too bland, and I haven't lost to a terran since I started goon containing... not like I've faced any really good ones, though :-( |
#33  [28404] |
| fjwilson.reshall.ucsd.edu |
I really think this goes in the forum.
|
#34  [28405] |
| staff-29.ahnet.net |
| Yeah I wish HC would have provided a battle report to go along with his strat.. Cause then I'm forced to draw the line when people start posting lots of strats. |
| #35 [28418] |
| fjwilson.reshall.ucsd.edu |
| Hey Johnny, Jeezumcrow is getting cheap first comments. You'll notice he didn't even notice there was no game here. (and I mean cheap by adding comments before the report exists) |
| #36 Krebster[28427] |
| spider-tl084.proxy.aol.com |
How does that go about happening?
BTW what happens if you get 12 on temple? |
| #37 [28435] |
| fjwilson.reshall.ucsd.edu |
| Haha. Your reign of terror has come to an end, Jeezumcrow! |
| #38 TheCabbit[28465] |
| bgm-57-110.stny.rr.com |
| HC, number one rule of SC: EXPAND then you can get another 6 rax etc. and beat down even more =] I wouldn't say wait necessarily.... I like using 2 fact, 2 starport when exp up for dropship/wraith creation.... anyone want to comment on that? =p |
| #39 SCV[28473] |
| c3-1d120.neo.rr.com |
| this strat is hand made quality shit, SSD4, i don't know what your smoking, but how are you going to see something blurry when the ghost isn't moving, it doesn't work that way. Cabbit, you sound like maynard, why the hell stop at one expansion, just keep expandign and building more and more and more and more rax/factories, overhwelming is the key to victory? Maybe. But now you sound like Zerg. |
| #40 JudgePagLIVR[28491] |
| interlock.lexmark.com |
Heartcutter got a three?
I would just like to take this opportunity to solemnly say:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Neener neener neener!!!!
I feel much better. :) |
| #41 Corpse01[28492] |
| 209-68-229-133.dialup.cust.tfb.com |
This seems a little more dry then your last two strats. Heavy metal was decicive and it undermines the early protoss philosophy. Deep six was terran macro at it's finest. It took advantage of the awesome power of medics when supported by marines and firepbats, it proved terran can be played like zerg.This strategy, however, seems like a step backwards.
It's getting terrans back in their shell and limiting their conventional attack power. All the attacks here are small, precise maybe, but still small. The lack of more then one expansion that fits well into the build really detracts from the greater possible effect. I do like the concept of defeating an overpowering foe with wit and precision, but it's so much less solid then defeating an overpowering enemy with overpowering with and precision, if there is such a thing.
But hey, I could be completly wrong. It's really impossible to say either way until the strategy is tested in the field. As it stands, there are a lot of assumptions and grey areas. Well, off to nohunters to give this strat it's due consideration, see ya there maybe?
Watch your back, or you might just end up like me |
| #42 ScvTheDestroyer[28494] |
| spider-wa011.proxy.aol.com |
That 1 armor early game isn't gonna help ur marines live much longer. 1 medic is better than armor +1 early game.<p>
-SCVTheDestroyer |
| #43 TheCabbit[28872] |
| bgm-57-110.stny.rr.com |
| Personally, I'd recommend Weapon first too because any smart Toss player get's 1 weapon early so DTs can nullify early terran armor. And if the principle is "Kill em before they get there" Stim is the way to go before range. Just something I like to think, being the chobo i am... heh HC STILL ROX |
| #44 Dausuul[42782] |
| gelt.tcom.purdue.edu |
| I'd think careful use of EMP could counter storm reasonably well. EMP the templar before you drop the exp. There's nothing funnier than watching a Protoss player reach for his templar and find no energy... plus, if you're lucky, your EMP might hit the nexus too, allowing you to kill it in a single nuke. |
| #45 Nicademus[43626] |
| spider-to015.proxy.aol.com |
| One thing for the expansion killing. If you have a science vessel and you research emp shockwave...just before the nuke lands, emp shockwave the nexus. With the shields gone, the 750 hp wont survive the nuke-so it wont matter if hes got a force close, theres nothing left to protect, whereas if it lives he runs over some goons/templar and puts up a few cannons and builds probes again. Just a thought, take it out those things are long to make and expensive. |
| #46 KoRnKoRnKoRnKiD[59105] |
| cr881372-a.yec1.on.wave.home.com |
| ooooooooooooooo now i know y i suck at drops....i always made like....1 drop ship...........duh.......... |
| #47 4177[99433] |
| spider-mtc-tf061.proxy.aol.com |
| OMFG, you are the greatest Terran! |
| #48 ....(variable[107992] |
| 205.150.124.5 |
gj... nice strat... it's still completely missed and mucked up and complained about to this day as a failed strat because the only part of the strat they can remember is that deep 6 means 6 rax. oh well. happy exp hunting.
problems? cannon/temp defence... goon/dt/temp combos...
critical areas: good use of dropships for terran is what separates the men from the boys. good terrans have always been the first to the cliffs. but whether you drop his exp's located at main's or cliff natural's, he's still fighting an uphill battle of spending time to regroup or just make his units useful on defence. that, and i think at the very least, this strat helps terran players *spend*. |
Home
Forum
Starcraft Tournaments
